Status Report: Implementing multi-turret and twin-barrel support with a 3rd soviet he
“twin gun mechanism is still planned, SerB wants a twin gun tank like the ST-II (SS: ST-II is ST-I with two 122mm D-25T guns)”
As SerB wants to see a twin-barrel tank and as Cannoneer is looking for unique tanks, I think it is completely possible that we are going to see such tanks in the future. Furthermore it is Soviet, and I guess that more soviet content is going to be requested for obvious reasons in the future. This quote thus served as the basis of the following idea.
There are a lot of popular soviet heavy tank designs left to implement (T-35, SMK, T-100.. ST-II), which all have the same feature - multiple guns and great firepower. These guns are either mounted in multiple turrets (earlier designs), or next to each other in a single turret (later designs). The idea was to use all these popular vehicles to build a complete 3rd soviet heavy branch, while consistently using the concept of multiple guns.
This line requires both, multi-turret support and twin-barrel support. Warthunder made the first step with introducing multi-turret support. However - Warthunder brought most of the vehicles with multi-turret support as premium vehicles, selling it as some sort of exclusive content. So why not implement the mechanism(s) in WoT alongside a whole line which is researchable for everybody?
This article introduces vehicles which could work in a branch like this from T2 up to T10 and how it could be connected with the existing tree.
The presented branch in the first figure below features multi-turret-tanks from T2 up to T8. As you can see, the Soviets would receive a new “basis” of their heavy line from T3 onwards with the T-30 heavy tank (for more information check the info-sheet below). This is somewhat historical, because the soviet heavy tank development arose on tanks with multiple turrets. The legendary T-35 placed on T4 leads to both the KV-1 and the SMK. The KV-1 becomes - considering that the SMK also leads to it (it is infact its direct historical predecessor) - the “core” of the soviet heavy line, comparable to the T-34 in the medium branch. Unlike the SMK, the T-100 was further developed and thus placed on T6 in the branch. The spots on T7 and T8 are most difficult to fill with multiple-gun-tanks. Two tanks with great firepower (some dimensions are larger than japanese heavy tank’s) are pretty well suited for the spots actually, at T7 the T-39 (yes, such an early design can fit T7) and at T8 the VL which was constructed after the Winter War (thus it is some sort of T-100 successor).
At T9 the branch switches from multi-turret to twin-barrel. The T9 tank presented in this line is the requested ST-II, which should be balanceable on that tier with historical armament. The crown of the presented techtree at T10 is the twin-barreled Tank of Extreme Parameters (TEP), which was recently discovered in Shashmurins archives.
Explanations and rules which were followed to create the branch:
-If possible, the tanks should be (not only in the tree) also have historically connected development.
-Tanks should use only historical configurations such as engines, armor and armament. Engines and armament is in all cases historical. Armament is in few cases unhistorical – either as stock/grind gun (just as in the current WoT) or in case of the SMK as top gun.
-Unhistorical content is marked as such “(unhistorical)” or “(unhistorical stockgun, from x)”.
-Consideration of the vehicles balance-ability tier-to-tier. Why/how these tanks fit certain tiers is (if necessary) explained in the description.
-The guns on the mini-turrets often have very low AP penetration and HE damage. Shooting APCR as default ammo (as on high tier mediums) was considered as balance option (and to make these turrets more useful). The T-39 also uses APCR as default ammo in order to make the twin-barrel 107 mm gun viable on T7. Guns which shoot APCR as default ammo are marked as such “(APCR)”.
(2) Detailed information on vehicles (mobility/armor/armament/description):
Tier II medium tank: T-24
Maximum speed forward: 25 km/h
Engines: M6 (250hp)
Power to weight ratio: min. 13,51 hp/t
Hull: 20/20/20 mm
Primary-turret: 22/12/12 mm (T-12 turret)
Upgrade: 20/20/20 mm (T-24 turret)
Secondary-turret: ?/?/? mm
Primary-turret: 45 mm mod. 1930
Upgrade: 57 mm Howitzer
One of the first soviet medium tanks. This tank can be considered as a basis of further development of even heavier soviet tanks.
Tier III heavy tank: T-30
Maximum speed forward: 24 or 30 km/h
Engines: BMW VI (650hp), AN-6 (750hp)
Power to weight ratio: min. 11,81 hp/t (balance)
Hull: 60/40/? mm
Primary-turret: 60/40/? mm
Secondary-turret: ?/?/? mm
Primary-turret: 76-mm tank gun
Secondary-turret: 37 mm high power
Development of this tank started in 1929. Thus this tank might be considered the first true soviet heavy tank. A full size wooden mock-up was built in 1932. The development continued until it was stopped in favor of the T-35, T-42 and T-39 heavy tanks. The armor is very good for its tier, literally the same as the French T3 vehicle AMX 38.
Tier IV heavy tank: T-35
Weight: 42,5 t (54t in the configuration with max. additional armor)
Maximum speed forward: 30 km/h
Engines: M-6 (300hp), M-17 (500hp), ? (580 hp), experimental diesel engine (600hp)
Power to weight ratio: up to 14,11 hp/t
Hull: 50/20/20 mm
Primary-turret: 20/20/20 mm (T-28 turret)
Upgrade: 20/20/20 mm (T-28 conical turret)
Secondary-turrets: 26/13/13 mm (two BT-5 turrets)
Primary-turret: 76-mm tank gun, model 1927/32's
Upgrade: 76 mm L-10
Secondary-turret: 37 mm ZiS-19
Upgrade: 45 mm 20K
Legendary soviet multi turret tank which was in service until the 2nd world war. It has historical upgrades for both primary and secondary turrets. With reasonable speed of the top engine and all the summed up firepower it could work well with the current T4 heavy MM-spread. As it shared the main turret with the T-28, bigger guns as upgrades are theoretically possible. The T-35 leads to both the KV-1 and the SMK.
Tier V heavy tank: SMK
Maximum speed forward: 34,5 km/h
Engine: GAM-34 850hp
Power to weight ratio: 15,45 hp/t
Hull: 75/60/55 mm
Primary-turret: 60/60/60 mm
Secondary-turret: 60/60/60 mm
primary-turret: 76 mm L-11
Upgrade: 57 mm project 413 (unhistorical)
secondary-turret: 45 mm 20K (1x)
Upgrade: 45 mm 20K (APCR)
Developed on the basis of the T-35 heavy tank. Similary as its predecessor it has a 76 mm gun in its main turret, however, the protection was greatly improved making it resistant against lower tier guns in WoT.
The historical gun options are not that great for a T5 heavy tank. The 45 mm gun in the smaller turret could to be upgradeable to shoot APCR on default, this way it has 88 mm currently penetration which is easily enough for a secondary turret. The main turret however needs some serious upgrading: Either a long 57 mm gun (112 mm pene), making it a fast firing battleship (image a 45 mm gun shooting every 2 seconds and a 57 mm gun every 2,5 seconds, on a single tank) this tank would become an interesting pew-pew machine – thanks to 850 hp – with reasonable speed as well.
The SMK is the true historical predecessor of the KV-1, which is basically a shortened and single-turreted version of it. The SMK leads thus to both, the KV-1 and the T-100Z.
Tier VI heavy tank: T-100/T-100Z
Maximum speed forward: 35,7 km/h
Engine: 34-MHA (850hp)
Power to weight ratio: 14,65 hp/t
Hull: 60/60/60 mm
Primary-turret: 60/60/60 mm (T-100 turret)
Upgrade: 60/60/60 mm (T-100Z turret)
Secondary-turret: 60/60/60 mm
Primary-turret: 76 mm L-10
Upgrade: 76 mm L-11
57 mm project 413 (unhistorical stockgun, from SMK)
152 mm M-10 (After turret)
Secondary-turret: 45 mm 20K (1x)
Upgrade: 45 mm 20K (APCR)
This tank is another development to replace the T-35. Unlike the SMK, on this chassis were several bigger upgrades planned in order to improve the firepower. One of them was the T-100Z, which holds a massive 152 mm M-10, the gun of the KV-2. The tank is faster than the KV-2, but bigger and less armored. Theoretically it is also possible to upgrade the gun/turret further to a 130 mm gun, however, that is probably too powerful for T6 heavy tank. The T-100Z turret was build and used as an emplacement.
Tier VII super heavy tank: T-39
Disclaimer: There are several versions of this tank. This article discusses the variant with one main-turret and three mini-turrets (figure above).
Maximum speed forward: 33 km/h
Engine: 970hp, 1150hp, 1300hp
Power to weight ratio: 13,68 hp/t
Hull: 90/50/20 mm
Primary-turret: 90/50/20 mm
Upgrade: ?/?/? mm
Secondary-turrets: ?/?/? mm
Primary-turret: 152 mm gun mod. 1910/30
Upgrade: 2x 107-mm gun ZiS-6 (unhistorical)
2x 107-mm gun mod. 1910/30 (APCR)
Secondary-turret: 45 mm 20K (3x)
Upgrade: 45 mm 20K (3x) (APCR)
On T7 it gets both special and super heavy. Yes, a tank which was designed in 1933 is meant to fit T7. Its armor is apart from a 90 mm well sloped upper front plate non-existent on T7 – and the tank is longer then a Japanese heavy tank.
But this tank has two big advantages:
-Up to 1300hp which means a surprisingly great p/w ratio of about 13,7 hp/t for a super heavy, paired with a top speed of 33 km/h. The mobility is thus pretty good, especially in combination with the..
-outstanding firepower. This tank has the choice of either a longer 152 mm gun (likely a 152 mm mod. 1910/30, couldn’t find the specific type). The accuracy could be quite a lot better than that of T6 150 mm guns paired with a decent AP or HEAT round. The other gun choice is even better actually: A twin-barrel 107 mm gun in the main turret. That’s right, 3x 45 mm in the mini-turrets, paired with 2x 107 mm. The combination of both mechanism makes this tank truly unique, thus it really shouldn’t be missing in this line. The 107 mm’s are mod. 1910/30 guns, which have less pen then the ZiS-6. However with pen being a balance parameter now, this shouldn’t be a problem – and APCR as credit ammo (about 190 mm pene?) is also an option apart from an unhistorical upgrade to the ZiS-6. This tank could become a great sniper, especially with fast-flying APCR rounds doing 300 dmg and only 2-3 s between the shots of the barrels.
Tier VIII super heavy tank: VL
Maximum speed forward: ? km/h
Engine: 3xGAM-34 (3x800hp)
Power to weight ratio: 9,23 hp/t
Hull: 75/60/60 mm (+2x40mm thick tracks, on each side)
Primary-turret: 125/60/60 mm
Secondary-turrets: ?/?/? mm
Primary-turret: 152 mm gun mod. 1910/30 (unhistorical stockgun, from T-39)
Upgrade: 130 mm B-13
305 mm D-23 (Balanceable?)
Secondary-turret: 76 mm L-11 (2x)
Upgrade: 76 mm L-11 (2x) (APCR)
Developed on basis of the soviet experience in the winter war 1940. The armor on this tank is nothing special at the first look. The turret has 125mm on a round surface with a rather large mantlet, which should make it resistant to 160 mm penetration guns. However, the side armor at 60 mm could really troll a lot of people. The reason therefore is, that it has two layers of thick tracks on each side covering it. If both tracks get implemented as 40 mm spaced armor, the effective side armor without any angling is 140 mm. So this tank could be pretty bouncy on distance or sidescraping. However, this tank is huge. I tried to calculate its dimensions based on the humans on the picture, the result was that the tank is 10-12 m long, and 5-6 m wide. This is also where the weight should come from: 260t.
The firepower is again great with a 130 mm gun on T8. Alternatively, mounting a 305 mm D-23 (!) is also an historical option. Keeping in mind that both damage and penetration are balance-parameters now, this gun could be balanced as a unique derp gun with 1300+ alpha-damage. The Mini-turrets on the other hand both have 76 mm guns, the pen is quite low at 68-75 mm, however, that caliber has a decent HE-round already which could detrack and especially keep people detracked very well.
Tier IX heavy tank: ST-II
Maximum speed forward: 40 km/h
Engine: 800 hp, 850 hp (?)
Power to weight ratio: 14,65 hp/t
Hull: 140/140/? mm
Primary-turret: 250/160/160 mm
Primary-turret: 100 mm at 900 m/s (equally to D-10T ~ 175 mm pen)
122 mm at 800 m/s (equally to D-25T, either AP with 175 mm or APCR with 217 mm pen)
100 mm at 1000 m/s (comparable to the D-54 ~ 215 mm pen)
122 mm at 900 m/s (50 m/s less then then M-62T2 of the ST-I [258 mm] ~ 240 mm pen)
On T9 the line makes the breach: Just as on the new japanese heavies, multi turrets are not viable anymore on that tier. However, the following two heavy tanks have an even more interesting feature: Two main guns mounted next to each other – providing massive twin-barrel firepower from a single turret.
From the drawing it is not clearly visible, but the turrets side and roof could be slightly weaker than that of the ST-I. As its armament are 4 different twin-barreled weapons given in the drawing - and the last one of those, could actually make an historical top-gun for it on the T9. It is a 122 mm gun with a muzzle velocity of 900 m/s, which is 50 m/s less than the M-62T2 of the ST-I has. The penetration ingame could thus be about 240 mm.
Tier X heavy tank: Shashmurins TEP
This tank is a very interesting design and was found in the archives of Nikolai Fedorovich Shashmurin. The tank is called „Tank of Extreme Parameters“ (TEP) and it looks like a crossbreed of an IS-8 and IS-4.
The hullfront does not have a pike-nose, however it is extremely well angled and the side armor seemingly has spaced armor as on the IS-8/IS-7 hulls. The rear of the hull looks comparable to the IS-7’s. The twin-barrel turret fields rather large guns, they seem to resemble 122 mm or 130 mm guns. More information on this tank is required.
The presented branch gives an idea of how to implement multi-turret and twin-barrel mechanism into game. The idea is based on the one hand on the request of multi-turret tanks like the T-35 and on the other hand on SerBs intention to implement the ST-II. The branch consists of multi-turret tanks from T2-T8, with the famous T-35 at T4, SMK at T5, and the T-100Z at T6. At T9 the branch switches from multi-turret to twin-barrel, with the ST-II filling the spot at T9 and the TEP, which was recently discovered, marking the end of the proposed line at T10.
*RG: This article was written previously. And that's all I need to say. This is a message for thee who understands.